calibration question old 200k maps

  • A friend of mine gave me the following url:
    http://lazarus.elte.hu/hun/digkonyv/topo/3felmeres.htm


    It's an index for a big collection of old east-european maps (200k).
    (3rd Military Mapping Survey of Austria-Hungary)


    These maps can be a great source for finding offroad/hiking tracks because it turns out they contain still existing tracks that are often deprecated on more recent maps...


    Would it be possible to calibrate those in ttqv?
    If so, what would be a good approach?


    Take for example:
    http://lazarus.elte.hu/hun/digkonyv/topo/200e/39-46.jpg
    In the upperleft corner: 38'30 Ostlich v. Ferro
    The index also states that "Longitude is counted from Ferro".
    What does that mean?


    Thanks in advance for any help or information...

  • Hi,


    I confess, I never had a look to these ancient "Ferro Type" maps before,
    so I simply gave it a try. To keep in mind:
    From the existing easting values deduct 17°40'00" to get the respective
    values for Greenwich "0°", the ones TTQV does understand, i. E.
    20°50', 21°20', 21°50'....for the three required easting values for TTQV
    calibration of this map.
    So I simply calibrated using TTQV "lat/lon-Grid, 3x3", I set Map Datum to
    WGS84 and gave it a try comparing the map to GE.
    Hmm, this got me extremely surprised, the points I checked (mainly rivers,
    junctions of...) were spot on! WOW........


    While our specialists here may come up with formal errors in doing it this way,
    it seems this does the trick more then sufficiently to find your trails ;-)

    Gruß Jockel (QV-Admin)
    Angefragte Daten für Supportfälle bitte schicken an info/at/quovadis-gps.com unter Bezugnahme (link) auf diesen thread, Danke!

  • mojn, mojn,

    Zitat von "macnetz"

    hi haze, hallo jockel,
    we talked about this maps here:
    http://bb.ttqv.com/index.php?page=Thread&threadID=12427...


    haze
    the info beyond the link explains more details about these maps, but leads
    to similar conclusion. They recommend using the map-datum "Hermannskogel", available in TTQV too!
    From what I see with your example map, simply using WGS84 is definitely better!

    Gruß Jockel (QV-Admin)
    Angefragte Daten für Supportfälle bitte schicken an info/at/quovadis-gps.com unter Bezugnahme (link) auf diesen thread, Danke!

  • Hello all,


    Zitat von "jockel"

    They recommend using the map-datum "Hermannskogel", available in TTQV too!
    From what I see with your example map, simply using WGS84 is definitely better!


    No, the new Map Datum Hermannskogel is not recommend.
    This maps use the old cartographic system from Austria with the old Map Datum Hermannskogel Habsburgwarte. This system required for a universal shift to wgs84 a 7 parameter Helmert transformation. Also the rotation of earth axis is required. (X-axis +6.04" y-axis +1.96" z-axis -11.38"). The next problem is the differ between international Meter an German legacy Meter scale. Unfortunately the Austrian authority BEV don't not answer to questions of the Old Map Datum. All this information have i#m collect by the German authority BKG and other free sources.


    TTQV don't support the required 7 parameter shift and not the German legacy Meter. The working of some maps with wgs84 is accident, and do only really working near be central point. If you will use this map in TTQV, then you must elimination the rotation of earth axis with a rectification in a cartographic editor.


    greetings Joern Weber

    Bei Supportanfragen bitte immer angeben:
    TTQV-Version (zB 4.0.87PU)
    Windows-Version
    Emulation (zB VM-Ware, Parallels)?
    GPSr: Marke/Typ/SW-Version
    Verbindung: Seriell/USB/USB-Seriell-Wandler

  • Zitat von "Joern_Weber"

    If you will use this map in TTQV, then you must elimination the rotation of earth axis with a rectification in a cartographic editor.


    Hi guys,


    this would be the exact solution, but for 200k maps like these with a quite small sheet size I consider it breaking a fly on the wheel. I would follow Jockel's suggestion and give it a first try with a 3x3 WGS84 lat/lon calibration, if this does not give the requested accuracy I would switch to a free 9-point WGS84 calibration with points extracted from a source like GE satellite images, e.g.

    Grüße
    Hans


    "The universal aptitude for inaptitude makes any human accomplishment an incredible miracle." (John Paul Stapp)

  • Hello Polaris,


    Zitat von "Polarlys"

    I would switch to a free 9-point WGS84 calibration with points extracted from a source like GE satellite images, e.g.


    For only one map you proposal is the best solution. But if will stitch the map to one area then don't work without deformities on the seams.


    greetings Joern Weber

    Bei Supportanfragen bitte immer angeben:
    TTQV-Version (zB 4.0.87PU)
    Windows-Version
    Emulation (zB VM-Ware, Parallels)?
    GPSr: Marke/Typ/SW-Version
    Verbindung: Seriell/USB/USB-Seriell-Wandler